Precedence
Questions & Answers, Frequently Asked Questions, and Blog

What is the Precedence Among Retired Officials?
      In the United States order of precedence, Associate Justices of the Supreme Court are explicitly ranked in order of appointment, but the ranking of retired justices doesn't seem to be specified. Will retiring Justice Stevens rank ahead of (earlier appointment) or behind (later retirement) O'Connor & Souter?.
   -- M. Woods.

Dear Mr. Woods:
     Justice Stevens will be first.
     Precedence lists around Washington do include how to order some former officials: but they don't include how to order former associate justices. When lists DO state how to rank 'formers" they all use the same approach ...
          Former Presidents of the United States by earliest assumption of office.
          Ambassadors of foreign nations by date of presentation of credentials ...
          Senators by length of service ... (which is the same as earliest assumption of office)
          Former cabinet members by seniority of assuming office
          Retired (armed service officers) by date of rank
     So standard protocol is to order 'formers' by the earliest assumption of office -- not by total length of service or most recent date of retirement:
     Stevens appointed 1975
     O'Connor appointed 1981
     Souter appointed 1990
      -- Robert Hickey

What is the Precedence Among Proclamations?
      Our local Heritage Association is having a birthday celebration for a citizen turning 100.  We will have the following elected officials in attendance who will be presenting proclamations: Do I have their order correct?
            Mayor of City
            County Commissioner
            Superintendent of Schools
      We will also have proclamations from the following that will not be in attendance:
            President of the U.S.
            Former President of the US
            Governor of the State
            State Representative
      Is there an order to how these proclamations should be given?   Thank you for your assistance.
         -- Judy I., Heritage Association of Frisco

Dear Judy I @ HAF:
     In terms of precedence an official most closely in his or her domain is always the highest. E.g., the mayor in his or her city has the highest precedence at any event in the city.
     However, typically lower officials (governors, mayors, etc.) grant visiting higher officials the higher precedence as a courtesy.
     But, the application of precedence is situational. You have present officials and absent officials. I suggest you read the absent officials proclamations first (since they are high) ... then have the present officials read their own. I would not want to have a superintendent of schools reading his proclamation before a president of the United State's proclamation just because he was in attendence.
     So, based on the White House Precedence List this is what I'd suggest:
               Absent Current President of the U.S. (#1 on the White House List)
               Absent Governor of the State in his own state (#3 on the White House list)  
               Absent Former President of the U.S. (#5 on the White House list)
               Absent State Representative (#39 on the White House list)
    Then ....
               Present mayor in his own city (#30 on the White House list)
               Present commissioner of the board
               Present superintendent of schools
    I include a prototype White House Precedence List in my book for just this kind of situation. Great thing about using The White House's List is if someone questions you about the order -- you can say "we used the order established on the White House Precedence List'  ... and on hearing that they usually keep quiet!
      -- Robert Hickey

How to Address A City Council Meeting?
    As president of a non-profit organization, I'm going to be making a presentation before my local city council requesting funding for a community service project. The seven member council sits on a raised platform at the front of the council chamber. The mayor and clerk-treasurer attend the meetings and are seated at a table to the right of the council members at floor level. The council president is the presiding official. When I get up to address the council, what should be my salutation? Should it be to all members of the council? Or should it be just to the council president? And should it include reference to the mayor and clerk-treasurer whose roles are mainly to comment and advise.  We are a small Hoosier town and I don't want to sound too highfalutin in my opening.
     Is Dear Members of City Council acceptable instead of Honorable Members of City Council?
     I would really like to show honor, respect and decorum in the way I conduct myself. Thanks for taking the time to read and answer this email.
          -- Bob In Ohio

Dear BIO.:
    If your oral comments are to all of present ... let's start with how to address each person and then work on their order.
    For the president and members of the city council
        President (surname)
        Members of the the City Council
    The Honorable always precedes a full name ... never an office: So a person is honorable, not an office.
    I am not completely clear whether the mayor & clerk/treasurer are part of "the official team" at the board meeting. But if included the mayor would be:
        Mr. Mayor or Mayor (surname)
    Normally clerks and treasurers are NOT most formally addressed as "Clerk (surname)" or "Treasurer (surname)."  So he or she would be:
        Mr./Ms. (surname)
    There is no need to mention his/her office: in this context everyone will know who he/she is.
    Now, about the order to mention them: I would want to know MORE to be certain who had the highest precedence at this event. But... based on the officials you mention... here is where I would start:
    1. A mayor in his own city
        (Was elected by all voters)
    2. A President of the council as presiding official at his own event
        (Represents all voters, and probably would succeed the mayor if they mayor died or stepped down ... like The Speaker of the House of Representatives succeeds the Vice President if both the VP and the President die or step down...)
    3. The clerk/treasurer if he/she was elected in a general election?
        (Was elected by all voters)
    4. The members of the council
        (Were elected by only their district's voters)
    That would result in the following:
        Mayor (surname), President (surname), Mr./Ms. (surname), and members of the city council.
    But it could be that the Mayor and Clerk/Treasurer are not "officially attending" but simply get excellent seats … in which case they would not be addressed. Then your opening would be:
        President (surname) and members of the city council.
    You should ask someone … perhaps the City Council's secretary -- before the meeting -- which is better.
          -- Robert Hickey

What is the Precedence Among These Guests: A former
President, two First Ladies, and a retired Rear Admiral?
Dear Mr. Hickey:
I am going to help coordinate a funeral tomorrow for a former White House staffer at our church.  The following individuals will be speaking. How should I seat them?  How do I address each one? How should they be introduced? What order should they speak?
        Hillary Clinton
        Bill Clinton
        Laura Bush
        Retired Rear Admiral Stephen Rochon
     The wife of our pastor will be the hostess for the event.  She was under the impression that she would be in seat #1 and the others would be seated to her right, but I am not too sure about this so this is why I am contacting you. I don’t feel I have enough experience to handle this one alone.
    --- Iris Winston, Upper Marlboro, Maryland

Dear Ms. Winston:
    A lot of questions! I will tackle them one at a time.
    Seating, introduction, and speaking order are all determined by precedence (I include the precedence list on pages 121-127 in my book), and the precedence is:
        1)    A former President   
        2)    A current Secretary of State
        3)    A former First Lady not with her husband, the former President
        4)    A retired Rear Admiral
    The wife of your pastor is correct: as the hostess for the event seat her nearest the podium and seat the others to her right in precedence order. Normally they would speak in reverse order (4), (3), (2), and (1) … the most important person speaking last, but I would check with the staff of each to make sure there are no reasons that anyone has time constraints and needs to leave early. If necessary you'd adjust the order and then tell the others in advance of the adjusted order.
    Here is a correct way for your hostess to introduce them from the podium:
        1)    The Honorable William Jefferson Clinton
        2)    The Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton
        3)    Mrs. Bush or Mrs. Laura Bush (she stated she preferred the latter to Mrs. George W. Bush)
        4)    Rear Admiral Stephen Rochon, United States Navy, Retired
    I did not include a statement after each person's name stating what office they hold or held. Add that information if you think attendees won't know who each person is.
    When you greet them, in indirect conversation call them:
        1)    Mr. Clinton
        2)    Madame Secretary, or less formally, Secretary Clinton
        3)    Mrs. Bush
        4)    Admiral Rochon
                          -- Robert Hickey

What is the Precedence of a Guest of Honor Holding the Medal of Honor?
Our diversity group is inviting a WWII Medal of Honor winner to speak at an event in January.  He is also one of the "windtalkers".  I can't find anything on the proper protocol for hosting a medal of honor winner.  I know he outranks everyone and would have the seat of honor, but I don't know what else we should do for him.
            --- Hosting a Hero


Dear Hosting:
        Your guest who is a WWII Medal of Honor winner would "outrank everyone" because he is your speaker and is a honored guest at an event at which his "medal" is an issue. There are no specific courtesies attached to being a medal recipient ... so, the honors you show would be at your discretion.
    You said he "outranks everyone" ... There is a ranking of medals  If you have more than medal recipient, then I'd rank winners of the same medal by the date of their award. ... see sites like the one below.
        http://www.homeofheroes.com/medals/1_precedence.html
                                             -- Robert Hickey

What is the Precedence of these Diplomats and a Prime Minister?
Dear Mr. Hickey:
We are having the following international visitors at a conference. What is the precedence order?
      H.E. Dr. Adnan BADRAN, Former Prime Minister Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and President of the University of Petra, Amman, Jordan                     
      H.E. Ambassador Abdoulaye DIOP, the Ambassador of the Republic of Mali to the United States, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Columbia, Mexcio, Peru, and Uruguay
      H.E. Ambassador Hamid AL BAYATI, Permanent Representative of Iraq to the United Nations
      Dr. Oleg KRAVCHENKO, First Secretary and Chargé d’affaires of the Republic of Belarus to the United States            
            --- Melissa Watson, University of Oklahoma

Dear Ms. Watson:
Precedence is always dependent on the location and situation. Here's the precedence -- based for an event that's not in any of their 'domains' where they are all equal guests:
        1. A current ambassador to the U.S. -- H.E. Ambassador Abdoulaye DIOP
        2. A current ambassador to the U.N. -- H.E. Ambassador Hamid AL BAYATI
        3. A current first secretary and chargé d’affaires -- Dr. Oleg KRAVCHENKO
        4. A current president of a university -- H.E. Dr. Adnan BADRAN
    RE #4: Former officials are not granted the privileges of their former office.  Sometimes a former official will be seated with, but after, current office holders, but that's seating ... not precedence. So even though Dr. Badran was once Prime Minister, he wouldn't be granted the precedence of that former rank at this event.
           -- Robert Hickey

Precedence: Brigadier General, ANG, and a Lieutenant, USN?
Hi Robert:
One of our PSOW graduates with the U.S. Coast guard is presenting a dinner to a varied group of military officers.  She will have a representative from the U.S. Navy who is a Lieutenant and a representative from the U.S. Air National Guard who is a Brigadier General.  Should they be listed in order by the ranking of their branch of service or by their personal rank?
      --- Sarah Baack in The Protocol School of Washington®'s office

Sarah:
      Tell her that precedence among personnel is by rank, so the Brigadier General is first, the Lieutenant is second.
      The order flags are displayed is in the order the services were established, so the Navy was established earlier ... so is first, and Air National Guard was established later ... and is second.
            -- Robert Hickey

Precedence of a Merchant Marine and a Doctor?
Mr. Hickey,
      In a few years I will be Elizabeth Bergan Hunter, MD.  My fiancé, Allan Hunter, is a graduate of the Massachusetts Maritime Academy and a licensed professional captain of two vessels which, in fact, makes him a Commodore.  When using formal address who would come first?
      -- Sincerely, Elizabeth Bergan

Dear Ms. Bergan (soon to be Dr. Bergan):
    People who wear uniformes and have ranks have precedence over people who don't wear uniforms and have ranks. Your medical degree is a personal distinction, but not an official office. So your names would be most formally on a social invitation line for line would be:
        Commodore Allan Hunter
            and Dr. Elizabeth Bergan Hunter
                (Address)
    -- Sincerely, Robert Hickey

Dear Robert,
    Before I concede defeat, I wanted to specify that the vessels are privately owned commercial vessels and Allan has never been in the military. Does he still take precedence?
    -- Elizabeth

Dear Elizabeth,
    Protocol would place a member of the armed services (USA, USMC, USN, USAF, USCG) higher than a member of a para-military civilian organization (a police officer or sheriff, for example) and a member of a para-military civilian organization higher than a private citizen.
    Since your fiance has the rank of Commodore he is squarely in the para-military civilian category. A physician is a private citizen.
    That said, there might be a situation where you would be listed first. If you were being invited to YOUR professional event and invited to bring a guest, your name would be listed first on the invitation: your husband is listed second because he is invited only as your date:
        Dr. Elizabeth Bergan Hunter
            and Commodore Allan Hunter
                (Address)
    -- Robert

Robert,
    O.K. So what is the precedence of a captain of a commercial vessel vs. captain of US Navy ship?
        -- Elizabeth

Elizabeth,
      According to Diane Brown of Protocol Solutions, Norfolk, VA. the US Navy does not officially grant equality to non-armed-service 'captains' --- they are considered civilians.
      A commanding officer of a commercial vessel might be granted precedence relative to the size of their vessel (and the size of their crew) in a Maritime Arena. By specifying Maritime Arena they mean they might grant a a higher precedence to your Commodore at during times of war -- putting him with a US Navy Officer of equal responsibility.
     But typically they would rank your Commodore with para-military civilian personnel ... but that would still be higher than civilians!
     -- Robert

How Do You Establish Precedence Among Captains?
Dear Mr. Hickey
    How are captains of ships ranked relative to one another?  How do you assign the precedence?   
    -- Ms. Alice Rippon

Dear Ms.Rippon,
    On this point of precedence I’d defer to Diane Brown, Protocol Solutions.  Ms. Brown is a protocol expert and teaches precedence at The Protocol School of Washington®.  She says if you have several 06 Captains their precedence is by their date of rank – the 06 Captain with the earliest date of rank is first.
    However, Ms. Brown says there are some situations which could be handled differently.
        **** If you have two "captains" --- one officer could be a 06 Captain who is captain of a ship. Another officer could be a 05 Commander who is also a captain of a ship. Both are captains of ships but the 06 Captain is higher because a 06 Captain is higher than a 05 Commander.
        **** Within the military some positions are determined by position versus date of rank. One reason for this is to consider the implications of operational succession in the absence of the installation commander. For example a 06 Captain who commands a hospital and several hundred personnel could be placed above a 06 Captain who is a surgeon but commands no one. Or at an Air Force Base, Protocol Officers will typically grand a flying group commander higher precedence than other commanders of the same grade. 
    If the captains are not captains in an armed service ... but command commercial or private vessels ... they are civilians. Civilians have lower precedence that military officers. Their relative precedence (to one another) would be determined by their rank, size of their ship, and or the number of mariners in their crew.
    Thanks again to Diane Brown.
  -- Robert Hickey

Who Is Higher: A CEO or an Ambassador?
 Dear Mr. Hickey,
   If I have the CEO of a corporation and the Ambassador of Mexico; who is the most important person in this case?
                -- Cindy Ware

Dear Ms. Ware,
    A current ambassador to the United States from a foreign state would absolutely have precedence over any private citizen -- no matter how high his or her position in the organization. Look on pages 121-127 in my book at the  precedence list -- it gives such sequencing.
    And one more bit of info. In my book I have information on addressing high officials from more than 180 countries .... and when addressing a foreign ambassador be sure to use the full country name, which in this case would make his formal title the Ambassador of the United States of Mexico.
            -- Robert Hickey

What is the Precedence of Gold Star Spouses
      / Gold Star Wives and Their Families?
    Do you know what precedence Gold Star Spouses (GSS) and family members hold?
    Today we had a ceremony to dedicate our Memorial Park to our fallen soldiers. A few Gold Star Spouses attended. One commented to us "Gold Star Spouses hold precedence over active duty for seating purposes." We agree in that GSS should sit in the front at a ceremony dedicated to the fallen. BUT, if they attend a different type of ceremony (change of command, retirement, promotion, etc), do they automatically receive precedence over active duty members that are the same rank as their spouse had held?
    -- KG on the Base

Dear KG:
     I've been asked the same question on "Medal of Honor winners" and "POWs" and the consensus was that they received special preference only at events where their "medal or experience" was relevant to the event -- just as you say.

             According to a spokesperson for Gold Start Wives
            Gold Star Wives (GSW) usually receive preferential seating at memorial events such as Memorial and Veterans Day at Arlington, at the Vietnam Memorial and similar places.
            At other events we do not normally receive preferential status or seating.
            Sometimes individual members due to their personal status receive preferential treatment, and my wear their GSW hat and jacket to the event if it is appropriate, but any preferential treatment is due to their personal status rather than as their status as GSW members. On many occasions we all sit together at meeting or other events, and all the yellow hats and jackets may make it appear as if we have some kind of preferential treatment when we do not.

    Further, according to the person who knows more about precedence than anyone I know, Diane Brown of Protocol Solutions, “there is no official precedence, bottom line is to make a determination on where to seat GSS based on their attendance at the event as "guests of the commander." Ms. Brown is a protocol expert and teaches precedence at The Protocol School of Washington®. 
                     -- Robert Hickey

What is the Protocol When The Queen Meets The Pope?
                    NOTE: This question got to me via Jacqueline Whitmore at
                       the Protocol School of Palm Beach .
                       Thank you Jacqueline.

    A hypothetical situation occurred to me just recently: If His Holiness, the Pope Benedict XVI, were to meet Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, what would the protocol be? Who would be introduced to whom? Would they use titles to address each other? Would His Holiness bow his head to The Queen? Would they shake hands? FYI, I am from Australia.
    -- Yours Sincerely, Fred Turnhill

Dear Mr. Turnhill:
     1) As to who would be introduced to whom … that’s a precedence question. Precedence is applied differently in different situations. Lets consider the meeting in different places.
          i) At Buckingham Palace Her Majesty would be the "host/hostess” and His Holiness would be the “guest”. Their roles as host/hostess and guest would define who was introduced to whom.
         ii) In Vatican City the roles would be reversed.
         iii) On neutral turf, if each was there equally .... each as a chief-of-state (the Commonwealth & Vatican City), or each as a head of a religion (Church of England & Roman Catholic) a determination would be made as to which was higher. The decision would be based on some rational basis … who had established diplomatic relations with the host nation first  … who oversees more subjects … who assumed their "office" first, etc.
         iv) On neutral turf if they were attending in different roles, such as -- His Holiness as head of a church -and- Her Majesty as the head of a nation, His Holiness as a ruler of an spiritual realm would have higher precedence.
    The protocol professionals would negotiate all these decisions.  That’s what they do.
     2) Neither would bow to the other. Only subjects bow to their monarch.
     3) He would call her “Your Majesty.”  She would call him “Your Holiness.”
     4) Would shake hands? I bet they would. Both are known for warm greetings and skillful interpersonal abilities. You as an Australian and a subject of the Queen may be thinking one never touches the Queen. But that’s a concept most applicable when nobility and commoners are involved, which is not exactly pertinent in this imaginary encounter!
                     -- Robert Hickey

What is the Precedence of Former First Ladies?
     I am working on a report on United States Order of Precedence. What is the precedence for a former first lady (e.g. Hillary Clinton, Laura Bush) when her husband who is still alive is not present? Would Hillary Clinton's status as Secretary of State trump her precedence as a former first lady when she is not with her husband?  I cannot find the answer to this in pages 121-127 in your book, Honor & Respect.
     Thank you, Milton Patel

Dear Mr. Patel:
    The answer to your question is in the difference between "precedence" and "seating."  Think of it this way:
        Precedence is fixed
        Seating is an application of precedence and is event specific.  
    A widow of a former president is the only spouse listed on White House Precedence List. Other organizations have their own precedence lists, but many people look at the White House List as point of reference.
    First Ladies (current and former) have no formal precedence of their own. The preferential treatment they receive is as a courtesy -- based on the precedence of their spouse. (Typically the only courtesy the spouse of any level of official receives is in seating.)
    1) Former First Lady Hillary Clinton's precedence is as the current Secretary of State. When former President Bill Clinton is present, she's moved up and seated as his spouse. The precedence has not changed ... just the seating.
    2) Former First Lady Laura Bush would receive the courtesies due a representative of former President George Bush and her seating would reflect her role at the event.
    So, in summary .... If you have a guest list you can come up with the precedence list.  If you then add a location & occasion you can then discuss the seating.
    Precedence lists are the basis of how a protocol officer would 'start' establishing all physical manifestation of an event ... seating, introductions, the order of who speaks when, who stands where in a receiving line .... etc.
    During The Protocol School of Washington's five-day "Protocol Officer Training"  this is exactly the sort of topic we cover. The training's precedence segment is taught by Diane Brown: I always defer to her on this subject!
    I am glad you referred to my book!
                     -- Robert Hickey