| How Should Jr., II, III, IV, and V Be Used After After A Man's Name?
Dear Mr. Hickey:
I am not sure of the name sequence in the following situation. My son is Walter C. Wentz IV. His father and grandfathers are deceased, his father, the third, just recently. What is the proper designation for him now? What is the proper designation for the son he is expecting next month? I would very much appreciative your guidance and expert advice.
--- Audrey Parker
Dear Ms. Parker:
The name one actually uses is always up to the person: So Mom, you won't be deciding here, you can only advise!
Continued use is often a matter of clarity for those one encounters.
1) Some men drop the sequence post-nominals, Jr., II, or III when their father dies if they think it then unlikely there will be any social or professional confusion.
2) Some men keep the sequence post-nominals if their father was well-known ... or if they work in the same law firm ... or same company ... and they think the friends/clients/customers will find the designation useful and interesting.
3) Other keep using the sequence post-nominals so their wife can be Mrs. Walter C. Wentz IV. to continue the clarification of who is his wife and who is his mother, who could be using the name Mrs. Walter C. Wentz III. However since you are using "Audrey Parker" (rather than Mrs. (name)) it won't be confusing.
One situation is seen with Microsoft's Bill Gates, who is really William H. Gates, Jr., but never used the "Jr." Now his father, born William H. Gates uses William H. Gates, Sr., ... he added the "Sr." to clarify that he is not his much more famous son. He probably did not officially change is name in court ... it's just a informal and unofficial change..
So, if your son names his son Walter C. Wentz V, he's probably going to keep using Walter C. Wentz IV. If he names his son Henry Wentz ... the IV becomes less necessary.
-- Robert Hickey
Is Anyone a "Miss" Anymore?
When should I use "Ms." and "Mrs." today at the office? Is anyone a "Miss" anymore?
- AKWP, Storm Lake, Iowa
Dear AKWP:
"Ms." is an honorific for a woman that does not specify marital status. It is now almost always used in the United States the business arena regardless of what the woman chooses to call herself in her private life. "Mrs." is sometimes used in business environments, but usually only when it is known to be the preference of the bearer.
"Miss" in the United States is rarely used in address except for young girls, perhaps under 12 years of age. Once girls reach, say 13, most people today are addressing envelope to young women as Ms. (full name).
In professional environments outside the United States Ms. is not so ubiquitous: Mrs. (woman’s name) and Miss (name) are common. In many countries Mrs. (woman’s name) is used by working women without any implication of their marital status.
-- Robert Hickey
How Do I Address A Widow?
How do you address an envelope to a widow? My mother says to put Mrs. John Doe. I think that it should be Mrs. Jane Doe, since her husband is no longer alive, why use his name? Is either way correct?
- Blanche Clark
Dear Ms. Clark:
Mrs. John Doe is the traditional form for a widow.
Mrs. Jane Doe is the traditional form for a divorced woman.
Ms. Jane Doe is the contemporary form which does not suggest a marital status.
However, the real answer is you need to find the preference of the person to whom you are addressing the letter. You don't state the nature of the correspondence. She may prefer different forms of her name in different situations. For a wedding invitation from a bride who knew her husband she might prefer Mrs. John Doe but from someone she knows professionally she might prefer Ms. Jane Doe.
My mother was most formally Mrs. Thomas Hickey after my father died. And she would use Margaret Hickey on her checks. But she was never Mrs. Margaret Hickey -- except on those free return-address labels you get in the mail. She didn't like Ms. but I think (in her case) it was a generational thing.
Younger women will be very comfortable being Ms. (given name + surname) in situations where marital satus is not an issue. They never used Miss in the same way they did in the early 20th century.
-- Robert Hickey
How Do I Write Place Cards for a Formal Event?
Dear Robert:
I'm putting together place cards for a memorial dinner on April 17. In general, I'm using the form:
Mr. Andy Clark
I choose to use Andy rather than Andrew because this is a social event (actually a formal dinner). Although the event has business overtones as I have a mix of corporate, government, and guests at our tables. Should I use the Andrew form instead of the Andy form?
Which is the right way to go for those with PhD (or equivalent) degrees:
Dr. Michele Gates
Ms. Michele Gates, PhD
Michele Gates, PhD
Ms. Michele Gates
How should I make out these cards?
--- Thanks, Andy
Dear Andy:
Most formal/traditional place card would be just the basic information to help the guest find their seat – (honorific)+(surname):
Mr. Clark
Captain Thompson
Dr. Detweiler
At a an event where the card is printed with the name both sides to provide the names for networking etc. ... you do see full names use the full names (not nick names) like this:
Mr. Andrew Clark
Captain Robert W. Thompson
Dr. Charles Detweiler
Nick names are typically used at a casual event, such as at an in-house event where everyone is already on a first-name basis, or at your home.
PhD's in academia and a research use "Dr" ... those who aren't usually don't. So if Michele is a research scientist ... write her card as Dr. Gates. If she's in corporate work, use Ms. Gates.
-- Robert Hickey
| How to Address Married Women?
How to Address a Married Woman: Ms? or Mrs.?
In my country, we use the British forms of grammar etc. but I’m sure you can help with regard to the usage of the word “Ms.”
I will use it if I’m not sure that the lady is married eg. “Ms. Jane Jones”
When I know she’s married and chooses to hyphenate her maiden and married names eg. Jane Smith-Jones, I will address her as “Mrs. Jane Smith-Jones”.
However, I have been told that in this circumstance, she should be addressed as “Ms. Jane Smith-Jones”. Which is correct?
With thanks,
Mary Lister (Miss)
Dear Miss Lister:
I am not sure I can advise you of what to do in Trinidad & Tobago (I am guessing that's where you are from your e-mail address) but I can tell you what I know is happening in the USA.
In the USA it is acceptable to address any woman you don't know personally as "Ms." .... e.g., "Ms. Nancy Jones." "Ms." is an equivalent to "Mr." which defines the "sex" but not "marital status". Since it's against the law to discriminate on the basis of sex, age, marital status etc. in employment .... Ms. removes the non-pertinent info for your name.
When marital status is pertinent, that same woman may use "Mrs. Henry Jones" and be addressed as "Mrs. Jones" in the context of family activities (social).
I'm not saying one might not run into a woman who want's to be addressed at work as "Mrs. Nancy Jones" every once in a while ... but its increasingly more and more rare.
I have friends where the wife does not like to be "Mrs. Henry Jones" ... EVER .... so I use this and she likes it:
Mr. Henry Jones
and Ms. Nancy Jones
Address
If you encounter someone with a hyphenated name ... in the US we'd just use it as presented with "Ms." like you note: "Ms. Nancy Smith-Jones." Whether that's her invented married name ... or actually her birth-family name ... doesn't enter into the use of honorific.
In the USA the use of "Miss" has been reduced to addressing girls of under ten or twelve years of age ... and once they have become a teenager ... they want to be "Ms." which they see as adult. I just taught a class of 42 students .. none knew anyone who used "Miss" professionally ... and only two people knew anyone who used "Miss" socially -- and they were elderly women. Full disclosure: I did met one woman in her 30's last fall in New York at a speaking engagement who used "Miss" professionally.
All this said ... in doing the research on my book I found that women in the UK, Australia and Canada do use "Miss" and "Mrs." professionally. I came across many, many professional women using "Mrs. Jane Brighton" professionally. But you don't see it in the USA -- "Ms." has come ubiquitous.
-- Robert Hickey
How to Decide Which Honorific to Use: Mrs. or Ms.?
I am a school board representative who received a hand-written note from the school librarian asking me to read to a class. The envelope was addressed to M Robin Buchanan, not Mrs. or Ms.
Is using M to address a woman a proper salutation? I understood M is to be used to address men.
I thought perhaps the librarian did not know if I was a male or female, although that information would be easy to find.
Should I be concerned by her lack of consideration to the person she is writing to or worry that she is using improper salutations? Or do I something new to learn? Thank you for your clarification.
Best regards,
-- Mrs. Robin Buchanan
Dear Ms. Buchanan:
I suspect they wrote M Robin Buchanan....just because didn't which honorific you preferred ... or didn't know your gender ... and were avoiding the issue.
I advise if one is writing someone and are unsure of how he or she prefers to be addressed -- call and ask. I find no one minds being asked how to be addressed respectfully.
Today I find married women use various honorifics at various times depending of the situation.
Ms. Robin Buchanan ... where their marital status is not an issue
Mrs. (husband's first name) Buchanan .... in very formal situations or when involved just as "a spouse"
Mrs. Robin Buchanan .... makes sense for women with kids -- when dealing with school teachers (as you do) who they want to be a "Mrs." because they are in the discussion because they are Mrs. Mom ... and they ALSO want to provide their first name for those with whom they would be on a first-name basis.
For formal etiquette geeks like me Mrs. Robin Buchanan is the traditional form for a divorced women who was formerly married to someone named "Buchanan" .... but had kept using the "Buchanan" perhaps because that's the family name of her kids, or for some other reason. BUT ... one of the basics of forms of address is that your name belongs to you .... and EVERYONE is entitled to be addressed as they prefer!
-- Robert Hickey Dear Mr. Hickey
Thank you for your prompt and thorough answer to my question. As a school director, I hope that our teachers follow proper etiquette in every way, especially when dealing with the public. I will relay your response to the librarian and show that we all can learn something new every day. I certainly have! I will refer to your site for all protocol questions.
I followed the link to review your book. I enjoyed the section on how to address a PhD and how to address a MD. I work with few PhDs but an increasing number of EdDs (Doctorate of Education). I previously worked in health care and therefore worked with many physicians. From my limited experience, the PhDs and EdDs all are more defensive about being called “doctor” than an MD. I agree with your medical friend’s response to the “doctor” question.
Thank you again for your time. It was a pleasure.
-- Mrs. Robin Buchanan
How Do I Address a Married Woman in Conversation?
I was wondering if you could help me with the distinction between use of “Miss” "Ms." or “Mrs.” We have a female visitor coming to visit our headquarters and we are told that we can call call her by either “Mrs. (Husband's first name and last name)” or (Her first name and his last name). e.g. Mrs. Paul Smith or Carla Smith ... but not to call her Mrs. Carla Smith as that would imply she is a widow. I can't find any such references and so am calling on your expertise.
-- Wondering about Married Women
Dear Wondering,
Here are some things to consider: If she is coming as the "wife of" a visitor, then
Mrs. (Husband's complete name)
Mrs. (Husband's last name)
... are both traditional and O.K.
(Woman's first name) (surname) .... no honorific .... is also O.K.
That's the way we address the First Lady ... for instance the wife of "Bush-43" is either Mrs. George W. Bush, Mrs. Bush or Laura Bush.
That was really started by Hillary, who didn't mind Mrs. Clinton, but did not want to be addressed as Mrs. William J. Clinton .... and requested to be addressed as First Lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton.
If she chose the form of address many working women use, she would have used Ms. Hillary Clinton, or Ms. Hillary Rodham if when practicing law she wanted to continue use of her maiden name.
If your guest is from overseas, consider that in the U.K. and Australia adult women use Mrs. (woman's first name) (surname) regardless of marital status: This is like in German where young women use Fraulein, and older women use Frau .... and the honorifics don't reveal marital status.
Yes ... Mrs. (woman's first name) (surname) ... is the format traditionally used by divorced women in the U.S.
Widow's traditionally continue to be "Mrs. (Husband's complete name)" .... as long as they don't remarry.
-- Robert Hickey
How to Introduce Married Women from The Podium?
Dear Mr. Hickey
How should I introduce members of the book committee (I am the chair) to the full club membership at a meeting? Some of committee members use Mrs. (their husband’s name), others Mrs. (their full name), and others avoid the issue by using just their (First and last name). What should I do?
-- Mrs. Michael Dillon ... aka ... Jane Dillon
Dear Mrs. Dillon,
I recently spoke at at meeting of the Centennial Club in Nashville, Tennessee, and noted a speaker using a form that worked. She gave a woman's married name followed by her given name. While it may seem a bit elaborate, it enabled the speaker to avoid offending anyone:
Mrs. Michael Dillon .... Jane
Mrs. Thomas Franklin ... Cindy
Mrs. Robert Elizer ... Harriet
Mrs. Richard Montgomery ... Francis
-- Robert Hickey
|
|
